September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

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Z6IIAB
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September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:34 am

Well, that's only fair, being an antivaxxer is stupid as fuck. I just wish people always took real science seriously, not only when it's convenient. Also didn't try to distort - or outright lie about - its results to fit their narrative - like the gender cult does. But what do I know, I'm just a biology teacher.
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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:20 am

I agree. It is bad enough that some people cannot get the vaccine for health related reasons and also some who get the vaccine are not healthy enough to respond to it well. But to deliberately refuse to get the vaccine because 'it's a conspiracy' or 'they are putting chips into us' is another thing entirely.

I know someone who refuses to believe this is anything more than a normal flu or 'cold'. They say that the numbers are being manipulated for political reasons. I calmly point out the increased hospital cases and deaths and they just get this glazed over look and reach for increasingly idiotic reasons for such.

It is alarming to see the lack of critical thinking in the general public. Education is not just memorizing facts. It is supposed to teach you how to reason and evaluate concepts. It is supposed to teach you logic. Apparently we abandoned that teaching method some time back because a surprising number of full grown adults are stumped with any problem that requires reasoning and logic to reach an understanding.

It is simple. This virus is bad news. It is easy to catch and it can make you sick enough to need the hospital and even kill you. Worse yet, even if you barely get a sniffle you can spread it wide and far so it can maim and kill others.

The solution: Spread real science data and listen to the experts. Socially distance when outside your home - outdoors and indoors. Avoid crowded spaces. Wear a well fitting and effective mask over your mouth and nose. Get completely vaccinated and take the boosters when appropriate. Isolate if you are ill and quarantine if you are exposed.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:58 am

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:20 am

It is simple. This virus is bad news. It is easy to catch and it can make you sick enough to need the hospital and even kill you. Worse yet, even if you barely get a sniffle you can spread it wide and far so it can maim and kill others.

The solution: Spread real science data and listen to the experts. Socially distance when outside your home - outdoors and indoors. Avoid crowded spaces. Wear a well fitting and effective mask over your mouth and nose. Get completely vaccinated and take the boosters when appropriate. Isolate if you are ill and quarantine if you are exposed.
Nailed it! God, I missed you rikkitikkitavi <3
Call me Celina. This forum still have a long way to go until it gets filled with its intended public. And I'll do my best to help us reach that goal. I'm a battleaxe, and when you hear my voice it'll be as loud as a thunder and as clear as a blue sky.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Tired Mama » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:35 am

Does anyone else get the feeling that the comic itself is being critical of the vaccine bordering on anti-vaxx?

It's being offered by the devil drones, tool of the bad guys... and not even refusing it but simply hesitating plummets Squigs social score. A concept which I was under the impression was shown as another vapid snowflake weapon in the clamor of hijacking issues.

Considering that a good while back the "woke rogues gallery" included "The Maskless" I can't help but worry a little about where Tats is sitting on the issue.

Go get your shots, Tats. And wear a mask. It's just the sensible thing.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:15 pm

Tired Mama wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:35 am
Does anyone else get the feeling that the comic itself is being critical of the vaccine bordering on anti-vaxx?

It's being offered by the devil drones, tool of the bad guys... and not even refusing it but simply hesitating plummets Squigs social score. A concept which I was under the impression was shown as another vapid snowflake weapon in the clamor of hijacking issues.

Considering that a good while back the "woke rogues gallery" included "The Maskless" I can't help but worry a little about where Tats is sitting on the issue.

Go get your shots, Tats. And wear a mask. It's just the sensible thing.
Yeah, we're actually on the same page here. It's quite upsetting. I think the only ones celebrating Tat's supposed stance are haters that believe his apparent anti-vaxx inclination is "expected", and "proof" he "has been wrong" about everything else as well, which is laughable and obviously untrue. Tbh I only say "apparent" and "supposed" because he hasn't say anything, but I think it's obvious enough.

Regardless, I worry about the global situation we're living in that allows stupid bullshit like antivaxx movements to have so much push people honestly believe a highly transmissable and deadly virus should be ignored and vaccines and maks are unsafe and dangerous.
Call me Celina. This forum still have a long way to go until it gets filled with its intended public. And I'll do my best to help us reach that goal. I'm a battleaxe, and when you hear my voice it'll be as loud as a thunder and as clear as a blue sky.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:12 am

I am not sure that Tat is anti anything except the woke social crap. I believe at least one country is instituting social scoring.

To me, what the comics seem to be indicating is that we are combining the vaccine with politics. A person should have the right to refuse the vaccine. They should not suffer shunning because there are many reasons a person may not take a vaccine.

I personally know of several situations where people have been advised by their doctors to not get the vaccine. In one case I had a chance to talk with a woman who has very bad and reactive asthma. Her doctor advised her that getting the vaccine would be very bad for her - but it was her choice. She kept researching and really wanted the vaccine, but trusted her doctor and did not get it. She ended up with Covid and it was very hard on her. But she lived.

Now, to look at her you would not know she was in such a dilemma - no vaccine due to health concerns. She already paid a high price of getting Covid. Should she also be shunned? Should her 'social score' be lowered?

So I guess that is why I see this perspective on Tat's message. I don't see him as anti vax. I see him as anti social scoring.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:31 am

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:12 am
I am not sure that Tat is anti anything except the woke social crap. I believe at least one country is instituting social scoring.

To me, what the comics seem to be indicating is that we are combining the vaccine with politics. A person should have the right to refuse the vaccine. They should not suffer shunning because there are many reasons a person may not take a vaccine.

I personally know of several situations where people have been advised by their doctors to not get the vaccine. In one case I had a chance to talk with a woman who has very bad and reactive asthma. Her doctor advised her that getting the vaccine would be very bad for her - but it was her choice. She kept researching and really wanted the vaccine, but trusted her doctor and did not get it. She ended up with Covid and it was very hard on her. But she lived.

Now, to look at her you would not know she was in such a dilemma - no vaccine due to health concerns. She already paid a high price of getting Covid. Should she also be shunned? Should her 'social score' be lowered?

So I guess that is why I see this perspective on Tat's message. I don't see him as anti vax. I see him as anti social scoring.
I think that's a good point too. But, while I agree that there is real reasons someone couldn't take the vaccine, if that's not the case, simply choosing not to take it is irresponsible because it's not only your own life on the line, it's everyone else's. I think vaccination should be mandatory for those that are in good health to take it. I do agree people shouldn't be socially ostracized if they choose to not take the vaccine, especially since that's being done without any regard for the motivations behind that choice. People are being really savage in that aspect. I guess things are way more polarized than they should be...
Call me Celina. This forum still have a long way to go until it gets filled with its intended public. And I'll do my best to help us reach that goal. I'm a battleaxe, and when you hear my voice it'll be as loud as a thunder and as clear as a blue sky.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:44 am

Z6IIAB wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:31 am
I think that's a good point too. But, while I agree that there is real reasons someone couldn't take the vaccine, if that's not the case, simply choosing not to take it is irresponsible because it's not only your own life on the line, it's everyone else's. I think vaccination should be mandatory for those that are in good health to take it. I do agree people shouldn't be socially ostracized if they choose to not take the vaccine, especially since that's being done without any regard for the motivations behind that choice. People are being really savage in that aspect. I guess things are way more polarized than they should be...
I can understand your point. Not taking a vaccine when there is not strong medical reason not to is an act that can affect other people's lives.
But I stop short in saying it should be mandatory and here is why:

My government is at best bipolar and at worst psychopathic. I absolutely do not trust that the government is better at making medical decisions for me than what my own doctor and I come up with and that is what this boils down to. There is too much incompetence, shady deals, big company influences, and the like to say that the government is correct in its views. If a mandatory vaccine is allowed now, what other mandatory medical interventions will be required in the future.

Right now in the state of Texas, the government there is taking away the right of women to make a medical choice on terminating pregnancy. This is horrible for removing the agency of these women and for bringing what is essentially a religious stance into law.

I never want to force a medical option onto a person or to remove a medical option from a person. And I have a lot of opinions on what is appropriate or inappropriate especially in regards to plastic surgery.

That being said, in regards to vaccinations, I do think it is okay to create non medical requirements for those who choose to not get vaccinated. Such as strict social distancing, requirement of masks, quarantine and isolation.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:02 am

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:44 am
Z6IIAB wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:31 am
I think that's a good point too. But, while I agree that there is real reasons someone couldn't take the vaccine, if that's not the case, simply choosing not to take it is irresponsible because it's not only your own life on the line, it's everyone else's. I think vaccination should be mandatory for those that are in good health to take it. I do agree people shouldn't be socially ostracized if they choose to not take the vaccine, especially since that's being done without any regard for the motivations behind that choice. People are being really savage in that aspect. I guess things are way more polarized than they should be...
I can understand your point. Not taking a vaccine when there is not strong medical reason not to is an act that can affect other people's lives.
But I stop short in saying it should be mandatory and here is why:

My government is at best bipolar and at worst psychopathic. I absolutely do not trust that the government is better at making medical decisions for me than what my own doctor and I come up with and that is what this boils down to. There is too much incompetence, shady deals, big company influences, and the like to say that the government is correct in its views. If a mandatory vaccine is allowed now, what other mandatory medical interventions will be required in the future.

Right now in the state of Texas, the government there is taking away the right of women to make a medical choice on terminating pregnancy. This is horrible for removing the agency of these women and for bringing what is essentially a religious stance into law.

I never want to force a medical option onto a person or to remove a medical option from a person. And I have a lot of opinions on what is appropriate or inappropriate especially in regards to plastic surgery.

That being said, in regards to vaccinations, I do think it is okay to create non medical requirements for those who choose to not get vaccinated. Such as strict social distancing, requirement of masks, quarantine and isolation.
Here's the thing: it's not the government that should decide that alone, it shouldn't be a decision based on politicians prejudices.. It should be guided by scientists and scientific research. Not even doctors, because a lot of them aren't scientists, they have been proving to be incompent, selfish and ignorant on health issues. A lot of doctors are antiscience and reccommending medicine that's not effective, procedures that aren't needed and telling people to NOT take the vaccine as well. I don't trust doctors, nor politicians on their own, I trust scientists when it comes to those matters. It's based on scientific evidence that I say the vaccine should be mandatory, not on any trust in "the government". And politicians should base their health decisions on science always, not on their own religious morals. I don't think you can compare the ban on abortion in Texas with making the vaccination mandatory whenever possible. One is cleary the worst for women's lives, the other actually saves lives.
Call me Celina. This forum still have a long way to go until it gets filled with its intended public. And I'll do my best to help us reach that goal. I'm a battleaxe, and when you hear my voice it'll be as loud as a thunder and as clear as a blue sky.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:07 pm

My only point in bringing up the abortion ban is that governments, whether local or national, can make decisions - not based on science - that negatively impact lives.

You and I wholeheartedly agree on the issue about letting science and scientific research guide the decisions about healthcare. In a perfect world that would be what we could trust. Unfortunately there has been such a mix with politics and medicine here that it is nearly impossible to find the research and discern the actual science from the touted anecdotal. I can wade through it, but a lot of people don't know how to. Those are the ones who get caught up in the pseudo-science messages.

I am actually okay with companies and schools requiring vaccinations. After all, if a person who is fit enough to get vaccinated chooses not to, then they can seek employment or school elsewhere. So, if their conscience or 'feelings' about it are that strong then let them make the sacrifice of privileges. They can be conscientious objectors, but they also have to choose to be apart from the vaccinated.

I think one of the things driving the anti-vax movement is total distrust of the government. Creating a sweeping mandatory requirement will have them doubling down on their views.

I am more for the softer approach - given that the anti-vax crowd is a powder keg right now. Gradually reducing privileges through the decisions of private companies and schools to require vaccines will have many of those less hard line anti-vaxxers abandoning the movement in order to keep that employment and schooling.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Z6IIAB » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:41 pm

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:07 pm
My only point in bringing up the abortion ban is that governments, whether local or national, can make decisions - not based on science - that negatively impact lives.

You and I wholeheartedly agree on the issue about letting science and scientific research guide the decisions about healthcare. In a perfect world that would be what we could trust. Unfortunately there has been such a mix with politics and medicine here that it is nearly impossible to find the research and discern the actual science from the touted anecdotal. I can wade through it, but a lot of people don't know how to. Those are the ones who get caught up in the pseudo-science messages.

I am actually okay with companies and schools requiring vaccinations. After all, if a person who is fit enough to get vaccinated chooses not to, then they can seek employment or school elsewhere. So, if their conscience or 'feelings' about it are that strong then let them make the sacrifice of privileges. They can be conscientious objectors, but they also have to choose to be apart from the vaccinated.

I think one of the things driving the anti-vax movement is total distrust of the government. Creating a sweeping mandatory requirement will have them doubling down on their views.

I am more for the softer approach - given that the anti-vax crowd is a powder keg right now. Gradually reducing privileges through the decisions of private companies and schools to require vaccines will have many of those less hard line anti-vaxxers abandoning the movement in order to keep that employment and schooling.
I agree with you, you're right.
Call me Celina. This forum still have a long way to go until it gets filled with its intended public. And I'll do my best to help us reach that goal. I'm a battleaxe, and when you hear my voice it'll be as loud as a thunder and as clear as a blue sky.

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Russly » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:25 pm

I have no clue what I missed and I'm not reading all that right now but I did want to say what with today I sure do still love this original character refocus mood we got going on!

-Russly

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Re: September 8, 2021: Conflict 73

Post by Russly » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:38 pm

Okay finally weighing in on this.... We clearly do not know whether our author friend got his own jabby jabby but I will say this, I got mine, and not for the reason you think. First off, I have technically only worn masks as a fashion statement from day one cause I got my first one a year before corona when I found it on the ground at Anime Boston. (My hunch at the time was, "huh, strange energy but I'll take it!") Second, consider Wim Hof took a sample shot of a deadly contagion, not a vaccine but that actual virus, and only got a headache or mild fever, because he meditates in a t shirt in the Arctic. I took that Janssen for the specific reason of doing similar meditations myself and indeed I was symptom free.

I'm pretty sure people treat the bird and swine flu in a similar 'just a cold' way lol. My own theories pretty much just come down to antibiotic resistance crossed with climate change regardless of whether it came from a bat or a lab. The political implications are still a Pandora's Box no matter what way you spin it. I seem to do an okay job at completely avoiding the news for my mind's sake yet somehow still understanding this is a real amount of people dying terribly numbering in the millions. (Somehow I feel like the truck that was spewing the icons is like my earlier mention about memes crossed with that weird cryptocurrency that got based on thumbnail images.)

I specifically recall something about the vaccinated still being susceptible to normal level cases of any variants of course. And the virus of misinformation is not so easily remedied in our burgeoning Idiocracy of a modern world. Because some people -can- learn a lot faster than others, some people -think- they can and really can't and then pretend they know more than they do. And they waste others' time. The real solution is keeping track of our time at precisely such moments. When the experts say overpopulation and climate change will get us by 2050 unless there's a systemic change, what they mean is 2030 unless there's a scientific change. Eventually scientists will take matters into their own hands if that's the case because they'll be -so- much smarter than politicians they'll understand that left wing and right wing simply mean scientifically oriented and politically oriented. No where in this would I see "political science" 'Trumped' by "scientific politics" as it were.

I want to make it absolutely clear that I think it is possible Tat got his shot. Sinfest is a comic and not real life. It could be entirely possible that what the author is alluding to is our much more real fear that some evil company may -eventually- actually try to pull some shit like that. They're big enough by now. And that's why I return to my original Wim Hof conjecture-- I took the vaccine under the impression that regardless of it being good or bad, that has no effect on me either way.

What really happened from a technological perspective is we formalized living in a digital age. Everybody hopped on board the corona train so quickly because it gave humanity the chance to get with the times. Use less gas, improve streaming, and globalize for real at least for some period of time. The world let humanity prove itself to be capable of converting to a mainly digital premise periodically for once, something that would be commonplace in a future with space travel. (As in, humans would be way more used to mainly digital communication for good when not all of us live on Earth anymore.) In part it could be we tried quarantine on for size from a sociological perspective because it is an exciting time to start living by the future's rules today.

And, if I have to touch on it, the social scoring is just your run of the mill Black Mirror sci fi. Life is polarized often times... "a person without enemies has no real position in life." Sure we could omit vaccines from social scores, but that could be the tip of the iceberg. If humanity just organically evolves to have most people take the vaccine by, I don't know, the maskless unvaccinated people getting corona maybe, until it just lines up that the survivors are the vaccinated, then with enough time we may just see a general decline in the pandemic. No stigma for not taking the vaccine but no pandemic of the unvaccinated, just most people know to take it a la the honor system I suppose.

I happen to live in a part of the world where the alternative and conventional practitioners of medicine often agree with each other and overlap, and that's very fun because when those two demographics are not at war their harmony often urges people to get the vaccine AND the acupuncture and this is very important because one without the other is like exercise without healthy food.

I think what's good is that technology itself, as well as the hacker world and possibly humanity at large are greater than any one government. Existence has its various self regulating mechanisms somehow? Employment and school might go out of fashion if everything successfully goes behind a screen. Not just some but all the McDonald's stores will have their workforce replacements. Abortions would no longer exist as pregnancy shifts to test tube babies. Who knows what this implies for the world of sex! It sure is good that the comic itself is evolving and so may be ready for anything.

It's a changing world and no one perspective, monologue, or train of thought will provide the existential relief I'm sure a physical pat on the back would otherwise provide. It just sucks that we aren't allowed to touch each other at all now in general. Maybe that's in the Sinfest spirit though since it's all about respect, right? Or neither. My personal problems can suck pretty bad sometimes but at least have me remain preoccupied.

Honestly this isn't even uplifting or anything but it's all I got. We will find out where the world goes.

"Every day is a new life to a wise man."

-Russly

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